1) Vision of the decree of the watchers

Nebuchadnezzar is given a dream speaking of a period of time

a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven; He cried aloud, and said thus, “Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit:.. Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth: Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him. This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and sets up over it the basest of men. (Daniel 4:13-17)

Many may say this vision was fulfilled at that time (thought to be 582-575BC). However, in the prophets people's actions often parallel later events in the nations. It is a very long account for a simple outcome, that of Nebuchadnezzar praising the God of Israel, and has a lot of detail that is suggestive of events of much greater scope. The point is that the Most High rules in the kingdoms of men. Therefore, ever since this prophecy the God of Israel must have been setting up the 'basest of men' or else there is no point in it. Nebuchadnezzar when he came to himself was no longer 'base' as he had a soul to praise the King of heaven. No ruler of great empires since that time has done this.

There are remarkable circumstances here. Nebuchadnezzar had only recently done Yahweh's will and captured Jerusalem (597/598BC). Yahweh had told His people and their king through Jeremiah to submit to His appointed ruler, in this case, Nebuchadnezzar, but they had rebelled (see Ezekiel 17:12-19). This rebellion ended “the kingdom of the LORD (Yahweh)” on earth in 586/ 587BC when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and the temple and took away the remainder of the people. To this point Yahweh is openly working with Nebuchadnezzar, through dreams and the work of Daniel. Nebuchadnezzar had “thoughts of “what should come to pass hereafter” and through Daniel.

He that reveals secrets makes known to thee what shall come to pass. (Daniel 2:29)

He continues to do the work of Yahweh with the war with Tyre. He is given “wages” in his conquest of Egypt (Ezekiel 29:18-20). Bringing us to 582BC when he is involved in great building work in his city, and is tempted to think it was the might of his own power. Nebuchadnezzar was not the basest of men. He became base and is restored. He was in the symbol of his vision the tree made by Yahweh.

To understand the decree we need to know what the 'Holy Ones' are thinking. After Israel's rebellion they would be punished 7 times (Leviticus 26:18). But in Ezekiel there is a promise of a new tree,

In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell. And all the trees of the field shall know that I Yahweh have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish... (Ezekiel 17:23-24)

This symbolic tree that will be planted in Israel is clearly the kingdom of God on earth. When Ezekiel sees the vision, Nebuchadnezzar is the tree.

But the tree is cut down. When was it cut down? Nebuchadnezzar's grandson knew of but despised Yahweh, however, he is judged and the writing on the wall explained “TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians” (Daniel 5:27-28). Was this the beginning of the rule by the basest of men? Yet Darius the Mede says,

I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end. (Daniel 6:26)

These are not the words of the 'basest of men'. After Darius comes Cyrus. Cyrus is spoken of by name,

Thus says Yahweh to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held, to subdue nations before him (Isaiah 45:1)

Cyrus is not recorded as praising Yahweh. Cyrus did what he did from a policy that extended his rule, to make him the first great empire builder.

The end of the decree of the watchers is when rule on earth is openly influenced by Yahweh and when he no longer uses the 'basest of men'. In the symbol acted out by Nebuchadnezzar 'seven times' was seven years. On a day for a year of 360 days this is 2520 years. Normally 'a time' is 360 years, but if the full period acted out was measured by Hebrews and as normal adjusted over the seven years twice with an extra month, equating to the solar year of 365 days and part then the period where the “basest” of men will rule is 2556 years and 5.5 months.

The kingdom of God is ruled by Nebuchadnezzar in 586BC when he takes Jerusalem and destroys the temple – (adjusted for the 4 years lost at Common Era is 590BC), giving and end at 1930 with a 360 day year, or late 1966 with the solar adjusted year. The second date is when Jewish rule begins to be established in Jerusalem again. From the approximate date of the vision in 582BC (adjusted to 586BC) we have 1934 with a short year or 1970 with the long year. Again the second date is more significant, with Israel voting to re-settle Hebron, the first place of their nation under King David and where their fathers are buried. But these have passed and though the second dates define the beginning of the symbolic planting of the tree in the mountains of Israel, God's kingdom is still bound by the will of the 'basest of men'.

Cyrus, is of the type of the basest of men, as he takes control and names himself king of Persia in 546BC(550). This gives 1970 with the short year or 2006/7.

The defining Battle of Opis where the kingdom is taken from Nebuchadnezzars dynasty was fought in September 539 BC. The Nabonidus Chronicle records that the battle took place in the month of Tashritu (27 September-27 October)

On the 12 October Ug/Gubaru, governor of Gutium, and the army of Cyrus without a battle entered Babylon. wikipedia Opis

On October 29, Cyrus himself entered the city of Babylon and detained Nabonidus. wikipedia Cyrus the Great

However, the most logical start date for the seven 'times' rule by the 'basest of men' is when Cyrus conquers and takes the empire of Babylon on 29th October 538BC(542), and so takes over control of the land of Israel.

From this point in history humans think they control their own destiny and fight over the land of Israel. With a 360 day year this gives a period to 1978. With seven solar adjusted years of days, or 2556 years and 5.5 months, the period of seven times finishes in Mid April 2014. Seven times from the decree to return by Cyrus in 537BC(541) ends in 2016. Cyrus was named “shepherd” (Isaiah 44:28) so the next king could date the start of the seven times period. Cyrus died in 530/29 BC(534/3) from this date the end is 2022/3.

As possible confirmation, in 1971 Iran celebrated a 2500th anniversary. The Islamic calendar doesn't adjust for solar years so it is only approximate, but 7 times from their caculations ends 2026. They have been counting and made it a big event, so it may be a sign for this generation.

The 'seven times' may not have one start date but a period or era. Joshua took 5 years to conquer Canaan. Ezekiel 39 says there will be a 7 year clean up of the weapons in Israel. Therefore the end of the kingdoms of men could be an era. The end era could begin in 2014 and the last date of the longer 'times' will therefore be 2021/2 or(if the Iranian celebration was a marker) approx. 2026.

2) Isaiah and the 70 years.

This prophecy had an initial fulfilment with the destruction of Tyre, but it may have another as it mentions a time period twice.

Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste. And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the LORD: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the LORD, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing. (Isaiah 23:14-18)

Britain has inherited the role of the Merchants of Tarshish. The verse says the days of a King, not Queen. King George V1 was the unexpected king. He was born on the very day Albert the consort to queen Victoria died, and was called Albert. He came to the throne after his older brother abdicated. His coronation on 12 May 1937. On the day he came to the throne Ireland removed the power of the monarch.

During the early years of his reign in 1939 Britain issued a white paper regarding Israel restricting immigration and opposing the plan for a Jewish state. During his reign the empire declined rapidly. In 1947 they lost India and Pakistan. He died unexpectedly in February 1952 and Elizabeth therefore reigned in her father's place. Her coronation was in June 1953. However, her work for the nation began earlier during the second world war in 1945 when she was 18 becoming the first monarch to actively serve in the armed forces. From 1951 when her father's health declined Elizabeth frequently stood in for him at public events. She also holds the title of 'Duke of Normandy', a male title. Remarkably she is currently the second-longest-serving head of state in the world. Wikipedia says “If she is still reigning on 26 May 2024, at the age of 98, she will surpass the reign of Louis XIV of France and become the longest reigning monarch in European history”. Why should they say this?

It is certainly possible, but what they are saying is that the reign of a king Louis 14 was 70 years the “days of one king” (1953-2023=70). 70 years is not the average reign, or the standard reign, but the most remarkable and longest reign of “one king”.

Truly during this time from 1937-9 the ships of Tarshish, or the ships trading with India were “laid waste”. By 1947 Britain had lost India, and all power. But since 2003 they joined the US invading Iraq and have increased their presence of ships in the Persian Gulf. And Britain has increased trade based in India since 2004 to be noticeable by 2007. At this present time India sings in English.

It may speculated the seventy year period is therefore:

Beginning of the king's reign 1937 to 2007 when the queen began to hand duties to her son.

The year 1937 marks the beginning of decline and 2007 marks the revival, and the strength of the pound returning for trade.

Beginning of military duties 1945 to 2015.

Beginning of royal duties 1951 to 2021.

Beginning of reign 1953 to 2023 when merchandise is declared holy.

The verse says seventy years twice, the first time is it is the measure of the “days of one king”. The first time is the period they are 'forgotten' as the ships of Tarshish. The second is to the end when their hire is turned from harlotry to holiness. This second seventy year period either starts 1945, 51 or 53, and ends 2015, 21, 23. In verse 15 (literal translation)

and come to pass in day he/she/it self and cause to forget Tyre (Tsor :a rock) seventy year as day of a king at end of (after) seventy years come to pass to Tyre (rock) as singing harlot

Verse 16 to 18 says

take your harp revolve (or walk around) your city and commit adultery cause to forget and make happy beat a tune increase your song on account of your mark (or remembrance) v17 And it shall come to pass at end of seventy year to visit Yahweh himself Tsor (rock) and turn back/ cease to give be a harlot with (or among) all kingdoms the earth (land) upon the face the adam (earth). And come to pass profit from trade to be a gift hallowed to Yahweh not stored up and not hoarded as to dwell to face Yahweh to become profit to eat to fill and for a covering splendid.

The end is clearly remarkable. The 'rock' merchants (noted for the cliffs of Dover or the rock of Gibraltar), turn back, or repent, and cease to be a harlot among the nations. In recent years Britain is clearly involved in world finance way beyond her borders. She has joined herself to Europe (though not being of Europe) and been involved in the EEC parliament portfolios to do with finance! But the prophecy requires that she cease to do this and that any profit is given to those who dwell before Yahweh for food and for a splendid covering. This is a remarkable change.

3) Seventy Years Without a Temple

There is another 70 year period prophesied in the Bible. We can note that the prophecy of Tyre is given in straight years. It is not given as a Jewish 'week' where seven days is seven years, a day for a year, or a 'time' (360years). Likewise this second prophecy is in calendar years.

Jeremiah wrote to all the people of Judah and Jerusalem that,

This whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations. (Jeremiah 25:11-12)

This was fulfilled, as seventy years later Daniel writes,

In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. (Daniel 9:1-2)

But one may ask the question why 70 years? Why did Yahweh chose this length of time? 70 years is the length of an ordinary life (Psalm 90:10), so a 70 year captivity means even the long lived don't return to the land, and possibly not their children. The grandchildren of those taken into captivity would be the generation that would go back to the land.

There is something to ponder. 70 years of being strangers, despised by others, were needed to eliminate idolatry and train the new generation.

But this may not be the end of the application of 70 years. Hosea writes,

For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. (Hosea 3:4-5)

When Israel is a nation again they exists for some time without a king. But, we are not told how long 'many days' is. Jeremiah is told, in effect, that the 70 years is 'many days' as his property deeds are to sit in an earthen vessel as a witness until the return from captivity.

Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Take these evidences,. and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days. For ..Houses and fields and vineyards shall be possessed again in this land. (Jeremiah 32:14-15)

'Many days' may be more than 70 years also. It is therefore speculation that Israel is to abide as a nation for 70 years until Messiah and David their king return. If they are to abide 70 years from 1948, then Messiah becomes their king in 2018 (or as Israel was voted as a nation in November 29, 1947, the 70 years may end late 2017).

4) After 2 days and in the 3rd day

A prophecy that may be missed, is found also in Hosea,

Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he has torn, and he will heal us; he has smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (Hosea 6:1-2)

This is speaking of Israel. At first glance it seems to speak of Yeshua but it's not right. Yeshua rises after three days, not after two days!

The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected .. and be killed, and after three days rise again. (Mark 8:31)

Also the Hosea prophecy speaks of “come let us return unto Yahweh”. Quite clearly this is a group of people. Earlier in Hosea chapter 3 he had spoken of Israel returning to Yahweh after many days as a nation without a king. Here again Israel is returning. But 2-3 days is a very short time.

If the 2- 3 years is on a day for a year then it may be that the end of WW2 in mid 1945 and the revelation of the death of the Jewish nation is a start point. After two full years is 1947, when they were 'revived' and they became a nation or were 'raised up' in 1948 on the 3rd day.

This fits but might not be the only fulfilment. It may be fulfilled on a larger scale also. A prophetic 'day' is also a 1000 years!

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2Peter 3:8)

The end of independent rule by Jews of the Jewish nation was before the era of Herod, in 63BC when the Roman Pompey captured Jerusalem.

After 2 days (or 2000 years) from 63BC is 1933 (taking into account the 4 years lost about AD). Which is quite a shocking result as 1933 is a year that is pivotal in Jewish history. That year began Jewish persecution Europe wide and attacks were increased by Arabs in Palestine. After this date the Nation of Israel would be revived.

It is said often that Israel was 'reborn after 2000 years' (1,410 webpages) and 'revived after 2000 years' (784pages). All these echo what Hosea prophesied: 'after 2 days' they would be revived. It is 'in' the 3rd day, not at the start of the day, but a bit into it that they would 'rise up from sitting', 'be strengthened', or 'be established'. But the implication is that Israel will rise up for the remainder of the duration of the 3rd day, the 1000 years after 1933.

5) Times and Seasons of the Return

There has been expectation in the past of the return from dates in 1736, 1868, 1988 and 2007. In 1868 the conditions were such in the world that the standing of Daniel's image and the Gogian host coming upon the ancient land of Israel seemed very likely. In 1868 the remnants of the holy Roman Empire in Germany still existed and the chance of unification of all Europe was high. But then came WW1 and while events in Israel have step by step fulfilled prophecy, the events in Europe have seemed, on the surface, to be counter to prophecy.

Even in 1988, while on one hand the SEA treaty had been signed, the Soviet Union still maintained the 'Iron Curtain', and it looked like it would do so for some time to come. But in 1989 the world changed. Since then step by step Europe has taken a shape again that remarkably approximates the Holy Roman Empire. It is to be noted that Rome and the Vatican was not part of the territory of the Holy Roman Empire, rather the one supported the other, with authority resting in the Vatican. In the same way in the lead up to events in 1989 the Vatican has had power, and now speaks with authority on European matters. In all points the expectations based on prophecy of the past have been fulfilled.

Since Russia's 08.08.08 invasion, they have again claimed Europe as a region of influence, according to expectations, and nothing more needs to be done, except for Gog to stand up. There is now only one point not fulfilled: that they dwell in safety without walls in Israel. To fulfil this would not require a great length of time, especially as a state of peace has been approached a few times. The last half hour has almost ended. This generation will see the return.

The reason for understanding the times, is not so much as to know 'when', for each of us, 'when' may be tomorrow “when our soul is required”, but more to know 'why?'. We watch the affairs of the nations to see the power of Yahweh at work, to constantly re-affirm that Yahweh rules in the kingdoms of men. To acknowledge this is to show he rules in our lives, and to understand the political nature of the hope of Israel, for which Paul was happy to be bound for. The wages of the recompense of the reward is eternal life, through the 'seed' of Abraham but the substance is the land. The history of the world that matters is the history of the controversy for Zion, the Land. And for this there were times appointed,

Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD has founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it. (Isaiah 14:31-32)

We have been told everything we need to know and all the major events,

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he reveals his secret unto his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7)

Daniel said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changes the times and the seasons: he removes kings, and sets up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: (Daniel 2:20-21)

We have been told Yahweh controls the events in the Nations. To ignore the times when we have been given so many of them related to quite specific events is to be the reverse of wise.

Of the children of Issachar, which were men that had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do; two hundred (1Chron. 12:32)

To understand the times was equal to knowing what to do. And those wise in the times were wise in the law.

Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment: (Ester 1:13)

Israel was condemned for not knowing its times, at least twice,

Yea, the stork in the heaven knows her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD. (Jeremiah 8:7)

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? (Matt. 16:3)

Whereas the faithful would know, others would be in darkness

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. (1Thes. 5:1-4)

Those that wait shall understand and see the day coming. We can now know the day is no longer far off, the words shall not be prolonged.

Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he sees is for many days to come, and he prophesies of the times that are far off. Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord Yahweh; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord Yahweh. (Ezekiel 12:27-28)

Paul speaks of 'times', so the end of the 'kingdom of men' is not a day, or a single year a 'time', but a period of time that ends many times.

That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ: (Ephesians 1:10)

And the end is a beginning where all things in heaven, the rulers and on earth the people are gathered in one in Messiah (Anointed).

6) Graphical Summary of times

This work has carefully surveyed all possible start dates, with rigorous attention to the subject of the prophecy and the context. It does not set a date and make what Isaac Newton called “rash conjectures” and “by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail”. The result is a surprisingly narrow scatter of end dates.

From Daniel 12, the power (Muslim) that scatted the Holy people for 1260 years ceased by 1903, and by 1922 the British began a process to end the 1290 year long non-Jewish foreign rule of Jerusalem which ended at the 1335 years in 1967, from which time a blessed generation could know they were the generation of Luke 21 to see the return.

This generation may end from 2013-2017 possibly in a year of release with signs in the sun and moon (2014/5) to come to the inheritance in a Jubile (2016/7). The merchant nations after 70 years may sing from 2015-2023. In the arena of the Kingdoms, the European nations 30years of agreement ends with that of the 1260 years of the Power that speaks against the Most High from 2016-23/4. The end of the 2300 years of the little 'horn' from Grecian 'goat' coincides with that of the angelic watcher's new 'tree', or kingdom, being planted from 2021-26.

But nowhere is there a prophecy of a time appointed to the 'last day', which is the day of the resurrection. If the judgement takes 3 years where we, like Yeshua was in death, are hidden in 'chambers' (Isaiah 26:20) and on the 'third day live in his sight' (Hosea 6:2), then for us the return, with 3 years taken from these dates above, may be quite soon.

Though we have not been given a specific year, the servants of Yahweh are always waiting and watching. While not knowing the hour, they know the times and “are not in darkness” (1Thessalonians 5:4).

For more on Times Appointed Israel as the fig tree

Also Isaac Newton and the Time of the End

• Site Index

Sections

• Site Contents
• God & the Bible
• BFn Notes
• Consider
• The Living Word
• Faith In Action
• Quotes
• About this Site

• What's New
• 2pi Bible Pages